tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15742539.post2151736526176473531..comments2024-03-28T03:10:19.013-07:00Comments on Fraggmented: Time To Give Tolkien Fans AneurysmsJohn Seaveyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07530526320973807452noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15742539.post-28046983507512293112009-12-10T04:59:55.090-08:002009-12-10T04:59:55.090-08:00Well, it wasn't just rebelling specifically ag...Well, it wasn't just rebelling specifically against Sauron that I was talking about; I was saying some of the more worldly-wise orcs might be feeling like it's better to be a live orc who doesn't feast on man-flesh than a dead orc with a belly full of it, and they want to settle down and try farming. (Being, as it is, a lifestyle that involves significantly fewer battles with dead-eyed elven archers.)<br /><br />She felt that no, orcs are too addicted to bloodlust to go for it.John Seaveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07530526320973807452noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15742539.post-85182940500010599372009-12-08T14:30:38.474-08:002009-12-08T14:30:38.474-08:00The problem isn't continuity, it's copyrig...The problem isn't continuity, it's copyright.Daniel Perettihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02944159120927612498noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15742539.post-86353106158855351102009-12-07T02:19:23.297-08:002009-12-07T02:19:23.297-08:00Canon, schmanon. It's a good concept. I'...Canon, schmanon. It's a good concept. I'd read it, and I've considered myself a Tolkien fan* for most of my life. <br /><br />*Disclaimer: never made it through Silmarillion. I'm sure that puts me on some kind of second tier of fandom, but, eh.Greg Fleminghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09582548271053486394noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15742539.post-30071497895780584352009-12-05T11:32:19.968-08:002009-12-05T11:32:19.968-08:00It's nonsense to say that Orcs would not rebel...It's nonsense to say that Orcs would not rebel; they were fighting each other and openly talking about defying Barard-dur (i.e., defying Sauron) several times during LotR, both during the trip across Fangorn (which involved almost no Orcs from Mordor), and also in Minas Morgul after the Nazgul leave. They would probably not *openly* rebel, or not rebel while the Eye is upon them (or the Nazgul are around), but they are certainly an unruly lot. They also flee against orders (Pelennor). They are essentially bullies and cowards so they would probably not stand up to Sauron, but they *can* (and *do*, in the book) perform acts of rebellion and insubordination. And Shagrat (in "The Two Towers") is quite clearly a 'political officer'.magidinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12255841033538755123noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15742539.post-13064618855074452302009-12-05T06:12:29.244-08:002009-12-05T06:12:29.244-08:00Actually, MissE, that's the canonical issue I ...Actually, MissE, that's the canonical issue I was talking about. My girlfriend (who loves my writing with a passion) said she couldn't buy into the idea because the orcs had been made over into Sauron's pawns by dark magic, and wouldn't rebel.<br /><br />(I still feel like that might be true of the original elves that became orcs, but not their descendants...but I'd have to read a lot more Tolkien to see. :) )John Seaveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07530526320973807452noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15742539.post-5461629668586853352009-12-04T16:04:46.590-08:002009-12-04T16:04:46.590-08:00It sounds interesting to me, but why limit yoursel...It sounds interesting to me, but why limit yourself to the Tolkein universe? The story you describe is not limited to a time or place. The lure of "hey, let's kill our enemies and take their stuff for our own" still pulls at people's souls. This would be interesting in any fantasy setting.JD Atlantahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09155443492224962919noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15742539.post-65295377227795205762009-12-04T07:13:47.052-08:002009-12-04T07:13:47.052-08:00Given how the racism portrayed in Middle-Earth is ...Given how the racism portrayed in Middle-Earth is thick enough that you could cut it with a broadsword, I'd love to see this.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17773416732192167277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15742539.post-80042247486132783752009-12-04T01:50:00.331-08:002009-12-04T01:50:00.331-08:00I think that sounds like an excellent idea. And pf...I think that sounds like an excellent idea. And pffft to the canon... says the Lord of the Rings addict.<br /><br />Don't forget that wonderful bit where orcs are in fact the descendants of elves who'd been twisted and tortured by Sauron... or something like that. <br /><br />:o)MissEhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10847576154892083814noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15742539.post-27629064434505483732009-12-03T12:03:31.025-08:002009-12-03T12:03:31.025-08:00I also don't see why it would be a problem; we...I also don't see why it would be a problem; we get a glimpse of the Orc psyche in both "Two Towers" and "Return of the King". The guys from the Misty Mountains were quite annoyed at being forced to go with the ones from Isengard, and did so only under pain of death; we had the "secret policeman" Shagrat who kills the Uruk-hai leader when nobody is looking, etc.<br /><br />There *is* one continuity problem with your scenario, but easily fixed: the issue with the three guys who play games about how many Orcs they kill is not about Orcs from Mordor: those are Orcs from Isengard. They guys from Mordor get skewerd by Rohan lances on Pelennor's Field, not Helm's Deep. Easily fixed, though, if you ever decide to actually try...magidinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12255841033538755123noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15742539.post-67745461756709276362009-12-03T11:01:04.279-08:002009-12-03T11:01:04.279-08:00As someone who's never been able to trudge thr...As someone who's never been able to trudge through all of the books or the movies, that sounds like something I'd read. Continuity be damned!E. Wilsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04211698571194443222noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15742539.post-73780195218742618842009-12-03T09:19:43.587-08:002009-12-03T09:19:43.587-08:00I would have no problem and great interest, provid...I would have no problem and great interest, provided it did not end up as big a freaking disappointment as "Wicked" was... Of course, don't forget the Orcs who live in the Misty Mountains, just minding their business after getting the crap beaten out of them in the Battle of Five Armies seventy years back. They got some of their own back when the Balrog helped them get at the dwarves in Moria, but now they are forced to go smash against Lothlorien and against Dain in the Lonely Mountain... <br /><br /><br />As for the Orc secret police and so on, did you ever see the animated "Return of the King"? Had a great song for the Orcs in it: _Where there's a whip, there's a way_magidinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12255841033538755123noreply@blogger.com